¤ milky moon ¤

Wow, you guys are amazing.

I agree with claire about "While elsewhere Tobias and the angel diguise.." instead of "Well, I swear.." - even though that phrase is one that would be at home in a Joanna song.

Also, I hear "lorn and leveled" instead of "lone and leveled"?

Alex, the "I" in that narration... it struck me as a sort of universal plea of the dying person - to be held and remembered by the people they love - I imagined it as the refrain of the 20,000 underfoot, with no monuments erected in their honor. Like, listening in on their collective memories of their dying moments.... especially "I call, I call for the doctor" makes me think of someone perishing of a feverish illness - and most of the local victims of the yellow fever epidemics were buried there. But then - that passage is so woven in to John Purroy Mitchell's story, that maybe it's all just his voice... he falls (from the plane), he tried to do well, but thinks he won't be remembered (he never got to the Western Front, where his work might count), all that matters now is his love for his wife (although it could be some other hidden love, as you said), and hers for him - her remembrance, he calls out desperately for the doctor, but death takes him before any help can arrive. His life becomes obscured by the hand of the Master as it moves on (like Florry Walker, the woman under Patch of Grass, the mother and kid). I love what you said about the personal and heartfelt stories underneath the bombastic tributes... and even the personal and heartfelt stories live only in print... and the print can't ever really contain the full measure of a person, their essential nature - what is essential is really unrecordable.

Sorry if I'm repeating things, just trying to put it together in my own mind.

Ququuluru wrote:it seems more likely that if her reference to J.P. Mitchell signifies her thoughts about anyone in her personal life it could rather be her cousin Gavin Newsom

Good point!

John Purroy Mitchel was the second youngest Mayor of New York.
Gavin Christopher Newsom was the second youngest Mayor of San Francisco.

Sapokanikan! Wow! And I like "lorn" too.

Ququuluru, wow, yes! I was thinking that she might be referring to a musical rag instead of newspapers, but...

"The Brave-Men-and-Women-So-Dear-To-God-and-Famous-To-All-of-the-Ages Rag"

Yes, yes, that makes perfect sense!! This song gets better and better. So, what follows in the next few lines would then be the lyrics of the rag, right? "Do-o-o-o-o-o-o-oo you love me..." I was actually listening to The Maple Leaf Rag and others on youtube the other night, wondering if Joanna's playing has elements of ragtime in it... up until the "it's all right, and it's all over now..." final section. I don't know enough about music to know if she's ragging it up in the first section, though to my untrained ears, it seems like there could be some similar elements...

That's interesting about the connection between JPM and Gavin Newsom! I always forget that they're related... I sort of remember that, back in the day, she participated in some sort of fundraising event for his Green Party opponent in his first mayoral race? Hmmm... interesting to ponder, the young mayor thing.

Your first paragraph is beautiful, Ququuruluru... very wonderfully put. I was letting myself get a little swamped in a feeling of futility, which is sometimes my wont.

claire, I also think she could be saying something else besides "bag", even though "plastic bag" makes sense in the context of a public park... I can't figure out what else it could be, or what would make sense, though?

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! I hope I haven't barged in here too much - I just had to share Sapokanikan when I saw it.

Reminds me of He-Who-Easily-Can-Curve-Himself-Against-The-Sky

And here is another very interesting article about X-rays revealing a hidden painting.
Although this work of Rembrandt is not explicitly mentioned or in any other way referred in the lyrics, it is still a very interesting read which adds quite a lot to the theme.
And it also has this quote:
“At the time, Rembrandt’s many students perfected their technique by copying their teacher’s works,” said Dik. “As a result, there’s a whole complex group of paintings that are exactly the same, slightly modified, or in some way related to each other,” he said. “The goal is to understand more about how they are related and where the hand of the master begins and ends.”

I also like the following words of the scientist:
“You can’t always judge a painting by its surface!”

Article:
http://www.bnl.gov/ps/eNews/news.asp?a=2740&t=today

A short variant of the article:
http://news.discovery.com/history/rembr ... 11205.html

butterbean wrote:claire, I also think she could be saying something else besides "bag", even though "plastic bag" makes sense in the context of a public park... I can't figure out what else it could be, or what would make sense, though?

I think "pad" makes more sense than "bag" because a hard surface like a pad makes a better drum than a bag. Also, I don't hear a "g" sound at all.

Plastic pan also works in a public park. Never seen a busker playing a plastic pan drum?

Had to chime in and comment, since I've had the luxury to come to this after much of the heavy lifting has been done.

To me, this song is written about the 20,000 people buried under Washington Square Park and what had been the native American settlement that existed. The Ozymandian cause mentioned in the first few lines is that of the people who lie beneath the park, whose settlement and existence has been quite well "painted over" first by a military parade ground and then by a public park, except in this instance there is no way to uncover what these people lived and died for.

The swift turn to John Purroy Mitchell, to me, is one of contrast and irony - which also helps explain the sharp melodic turn. Basically, that the records and tributes that have been erected in the public parks speak of specific individuals that came after, so that anyone who, a hundred years from now, will know only these stories and people, and even as they walk above thousands of buried human remains, will be completely ignorant of what lies below.

When I re-read the lyrics with this perspective, the lines about the ages' rag and the "Will you remember?" and even King Tamanend bit seem to fall right into place for me.

Curious if someone sees it the same way.

a nice cover already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxIEnWOzmCI

Hi Southy! I think your interpretation makes a lot of sense!
I can't help but wonder whether Joanna would feel delighted or a bit bummed when she would know that her lyrics to this amazing song have already been deciphered and analysed before they are even published...

@ andrewb : Dash happy!

@ Alex:

where the hand of the master begins and ends.”

Holy smokes, another direct quote! Are you secretly Joanna? I love

"You can't always judge a painting by its surface!"

too!

@ claire & Jordan: pan and pad definitely make sense, too, and seem like easier things to drum on than a bag. i realized that in my mind, i was imagining a wind-inflated bag, sort of banging around in the wind, as if it was being drummed upon...? the invisible wind being representative of the invisible hand of the Master/God, the wind-battered park bearing evidence of things not seen...

@ Southy: I like your interpretation! What do you think of the King Tamanend part? How does he proceed John's fall, in Tammany Hall's employ? I was guessing that it had to do with his name being muddled and "employed" as the namesake of an organization that ultimately was remembered as a corrupt one, but I'm not sure if that's what she means here.

@ wanbli: wow, how gorgeous! blown away by her!

@ under a CPell: I really hope she would be on the delighted/okay-with end of the spectrum, instead of the bummed one. Now I feel bummed thinking that she would be bummed. I suppose she wouldn't have played it in public if she wanted to keep it well and truly under wraps...

@ myself: go to beeeeeed...

I went back and saw that people had already written about King Tamanend's name & also a statue of him being "employed" by Tammany Hall; also the irony of someone of such seemingly sound moral character being used as a mascot by those with much to be desired in the ethics department - apologies, can't keep it straight!

butterbean wrote:@ Alex: Holy smokes, another direct quote! Are you secretly Joanna?

Hey! ALEX YSOLTSEV is an anagram of YS EXALTS LOVE!

Jordan~ wrote:Hey! ALEX YSOLTSEV is an anagram of YS EXALTS LOVE!

Now that is a perfect anagram!

I don't think the word is "lorn" because the poem of Ozymandias (to which Joanna refers as a theme of the song) uses the phrase "Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away." I know "lorn" and "lone" are similar in meaning, however if we're interested in accuracy I believe the better word is "lone."

good call, teenagelightning!

These temporary pyramids in Queens made me think of this song... lordy.

http://charleslebrigand.com/2012/12/30/eerie-lunar-landscape-in-queens/