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Anecdotes

PostPosted: 22 Oct 2015, 03:14
by butterbean
Gah...the sublime beauty of this music... and the lyrics... I wanna go where the dew won't dry... :cry: <3

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 26 Oct 2015, 04:03
by butterbean
"There is a passion in me that doesn't long for anything from
another human being.
I was given something else, a cap to wear in both worlds.
It fell off. No matter.
One morning I went to a place beyond dawn, a source of sweetness
that flows and is never less.
I have been shown a beauty that would confuse both worlds,
but I won't cause that uproar.
I am nothing but a head set on the ground as a gift for Shams."

- Rumi

Maybe?

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 27 Oct 2015, 04:21
by butterbean
Well, I'll just keep writing about this song - I love it so much, I can't stop. I love the beginning sounds, the birds and the hint of an orchestra tuning up, and there is a certain quality in her voice as she starts singing that is just pure beauty. Even though I suppose there's no beginning or end in a song cycle, I love how this song feels a bit like the first and last. There's a sense of homecoming and settling in at the end of the song, when the daughter is invited to come on down, the kettle's on, her family's round the table... it's the sense of belonging that seems to be elusive elsewhere on Divers. There are untold acres of mystery left in Divers, so who knows (or, I don't know, yet) what the narrative arc of this song is, who is the daughter, etc., but one way I see it is as an afterlife meeting, all the family gathered together. For some reason, it brings to mind the line from "Occident" - "...and when I die, may I relate". I know she probably meant more than one thing by "relate" (like, if you've always felt like your life was a beautiful memory replaying with the sound turned down low, how exactly do you relate to the experience of death?), but it seemed partly literal - the desire to, by the end, have a a family of your own that you love and who loves you. There's a sense of the presence of that relatedness in these lines, and a grounded, unshakeable sense of meaning in that relatedness. .... except that there's the question, the invitation, the unknown - "Will you come down, before the sun is gone?" Hmm.

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2015, 05:00
by Impossible birds
I love this one too butterbean, it's probably my favourite on the album at the moment, all of the melodies and instrumentation are so beautiful.. The last verse about the daughter makes me super emotional and I'm not even sure why. And that line from Occident seems very relevant, not only to this song but the record as a whole..

Those lines from Rumi remind me of the PTA quote, when he said that there's a part of Joanna that 'has one foot in an alternate universe'.. I'm so confused by that line- 'back from the place beyond the dawn'- as in, back from yesterday? from tomorrow? from somewhere over the horizon? or a metaphorical/psychological 'place', like in Rumi's poem? The whole time-travel thing is adding another layer of interpretation to a lot of the lines about movement and geography across the album, I might be overthinking it though. When are you from? said he- so good.

I read up on dew- never realised it was caused by the water content in the atmosphere, it's perfect! It makes me think of 'and I hate the sight of that empty air/ Like stepping for a missing stair' in Colleen.. I'm so curious to figure out what's going on with the narratorship in this song- how often it shifts, who it's shifting to, who the 'you' it's addressing is, etc.. the last verse is italicised in the lyrics book, so there's definitely something happening there..

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2015, 05:51
by butterbean
It's my favorite right now, too! Though that seems to shift every few days. :) I just love the instrumentation and melodies, too... it's so gorgeous, and I 100% feel the same way about the last verse, and I don't know why, either! It feels kind of like an invitation to accept an ever-present belonging of some kind.

I'm confused by the place beyond the dawn, too, in terms of the action of this narrative... yeah, is it yesterday or tomorrow or? Though, it seems, we are in that narrative where time has gotten mucked up, where the only units of measurement relate to Space and not Time. ("Inches and Miles but not years.") I guess we would say before or after the dawn, but they have to say "beyond"... whatever that is? Or maybe it could just mean... more East than where we are? East-er? :lol: If it is a metaphor for a transcendent or divine space, then why would the soldier be broken and seemingly in shock? The first lines bother me so much (as in intrigue/unsettle), it's such a beautiful beginning, musically, but the imagery is so jarring.

Ah, I love that line from Colleen! I think of it often when I stumble on steps. :lol: (Also, I love your username, the impossible birds really are a through-line in her work, aren't they?) Yes, the dew! I love how all of that conjures up the freshness of a morning garden... And it does seem like the narration shifts a lot, right? Though it's hard to tell. I know Joanna keeps saying in interviews that she doesn't want to spoil anything by explaining it, but... sometimes, I totally want those Cliff Notes that she sent to her musician cohorts! I would be in love with her music without any analytical delving, but I do love that it rewards the delving by opening new realms to explore.

"Around every bend, I long to see/ Temporal infidelity" is one of my favorite lines, holy crap, how does she do it!

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2015, 06:26
by butterbean
Hmm, there's this... I realize that one can basically find a poem to suit any occasion, so again there may be no connection beyond the common threads that run through poetry as a whole, but anyway:

The Broken Soldier

The broken soldier sings and whistles day to dark;
He's but the remnant of a man, maimed and half-blind,
But the soul they could not harm goes singing like the lark,
Like the incarnate Joy that will not be confined.

The Lady at the Hall has given him a light task,
He works in the gardens as busy as a bee;
One hand is but a stump and his face a pitted mask;
The gay soul goes singing like a bird set free.

Whistling and singing like a linnet on wings;
The others stop to listen, leaning on the spade,
Whole men and comely, they fret at little things.
The soul of him's singing like a thrush in a glade.

Hither and thither, hopping, like Robin on the grass,
The soul in the broken man is beautiful and brave;
And while he weeds the pansies and the bright hours pass
The bird caught in the cage whistles its joyous stave.

- Katharine Tynan

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2015, 06:52
by Alex Ysoltsev
butterbean wrote:The Broken Soldier
- Katharine Tynan

It's just so amazing!!!

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2015, 08:27
by Impossible birds
Whoa nice find! So many links to birds and souls and joy, that can't just be a coincidence..
I feel like the image of the broken soldier in the song is all three-dimensional and knowable now, it's great!

butterbean wrote:Though, it seems, we are in that narrative where time has gotten mucked up, where the only units of measurement relate to Space and not Time. ("Inches and Miles but not years.") I guess we would say before or after the dawn, but they have to say "beyond"... whatever that is?


This kinda blew my mind! It makes sense though- and since time moves both ways it could go in either direction, so before/after doesn't really apply. And since they don't have a reference point for 'now', temporal descriptors are kind of redundant.. ah I'm basically repeating you, trying to organise my thoughts!

Thanks about the new username :) it seemed fittingly relevant and time-slipping.. and yeah that temporal infidelity line is great, that entire part of the song is amazinggg.
I hope Joanna teams up with Nico Muhly again at some point in the future!

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2015, 13:48
by Jordan~
Well, space and time are the same thing. In the narrative of the song, time has become traversable in both directions, like the three dimensions of space, so the distinction between time and space has collapsed.

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2015, 23:41
by margot
I have a theory about this song and the broader structure of the album; that the narrator is a bird who is holding onto the soul departed from the narrator of Time, As A Symptom, who calls out to the bird "white star/white ship/Nightjar/transmit/transend!". That soul is then transposed to a new person "born in open air" and any past memories erased beforehand ("you don't want to be down in the trenches remembering with me... you will not mark my leaving/you will not hear my parting song/nor is there cause for grieving/nor is there cause for carrying on...")

The calling down of this soul at the end of the song as a daughter, and the italicizing of this verse, just reinforces it for me. Curious if anyone else hears it that way.

http://www.academia.edu/5112298/On_The_Relationship_between_Birds_and_Spirits_of_the_Dead

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 29 Oct 2015, 14:04
by claire
Anybody a bird expert here? I did a very small amount of research on Nightjars and found that they are nocturnal and very hard to spot during the day because they camouflage well which fits in nicely with "It ain’t about how rare you are, but how hard you are to see."

And then I assume that Private Poorwill is a reference to a Whip-poor-will which is another well camouflaged bird that operates mainly at night.

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 29 Oct 2015, 14:35
by claire
Looking up more about Whip-poor-wills, and turns out they're actually in the Nightjar family!

Also, regarding the line "in star-spotted, sickle-winged night raids," there is such a thing as a Sickle-Winged Nightjar, and Whip-poor-wills have a pattern of spots that look kind of like stars.

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 29 Oct 2015, 16:27
by Julia
Thank you Claire! I love all the bird analogies in "Anecdotes" but I'm not much of an expert ... Not knowing many of the english names of the birds I know doesn't help much either. But I'm getting into it!

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 31 Oct 2015, 15:47
by under a CPell
I'm not a bird expert either, but I have read that when they dive, Nightjars make a booming sound with their wings and that their call can resemble the spinning sound a wheel makes, and thus it is even called the "Wheel bird". http://www.discoverwildlife.com/blog-custom/quest-see-nightjar and that Poorwills can go into a state of torpor during the day, reducing their body temperature. http://beautyofbirds.com/nightjars.html
I'm also wondering if the "horse and soldier" "back from the place beyond the dawn" have any connection to the booming of the cavalry and "hold your horses back from the fickle dawn" in Only Skin?

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 31 Oct 2015, 23:44
by under a CPell
And there is also a Star-spotted Nightjar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star-spotted_nightjar and of course the Rufous Nightjar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufous_nightjar

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 02 Nov 2015, 04:10
by MadlyMad
First of all, Anecdotes is a very beautiful word to me.
(same word in french)

Meaning good stories (often funny ones) and pleasant moments to come... And it works <3
Gorgeous song !
with differrent rhythms that perfectly render this feeling. :notworthy:


As it makes an Excellent beginning for the album, it would makes an excellent beginning for her shows. :hyper:

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 02 Nov 2015, 11:31
by under a CPell
It seems the word "anecdote" can also have another meaning:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anecdote
2. pl. an·ec·dotes or an·ec·do·ta (-dō′tə) Secret or hitherto undivulged particulars of history or biography.

I think it's great there is a sort of spinning sound, audible from around the 3:50 to around the 4:40 mark, which is very evocative of the Nightjar call. Also the musical motifs at the end sound kind of circular to me?

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 02 Nov 2015, 22:48
by Steve
I wonder if that double meaning is deliberate, given that the album title itself, Divers, can mean 'varied' as well as its more obvious plural noun meaning.

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 01:15
by Headless_Caboose
I just noticed the pun "laid down and dried." XD

Re: Anecdotes

PostPosted: 03 Nov 2015, 13:02
by under a CPell
Another interesting tidbit I read about Nightjars: most of them lay their eggs on the ground.