¤ milky moon ¤

The rest of my life is established enough to be fairly happy when I'm totally single. I guess I'm looking for the relationship anchor alongside the anchor of everyday life. I dunno, I really think I just need to learn to chill out a bit and enjoy what I have, I'm always wanting something and now I have it I can't stop poking holes in it. Such is life.

I'm really sorry to hear about that travvy, we're here if you need to talk

you were in strasbourg and you just didn't call me

I thought about you! But I couldn't just disappear because it was only the two of us who had both travelled to see each other. Beautiful town.

It's a long story, but basically I'm semi-seeing (and kind of obsessed with) a guy who's in an "open relationship" (read: polyamorous) with some girl. My reasoning is that I'm such a fucken loner (methinks the fact that I tend to get completely exhausted if I see someone more than 2-3 times per week is what caused my last relationship to collapse) that it'd be pretty awesome to be with someone who doesn't demand my attention every waking hour. Is that reasoning far too simplistic? Self-destructive, even? Dunno, it's sort of working right now. The jealousy only kicks in when I go somewhere specifically to see him, but he seems more interested in someone else in that moment, so I guess it's more general disappointment than jealousy..

@travvy hang in there, baby

The jealousy of seeing a boyfriend with a woman would drive me crazy. With another guy, I could handle, but even the thought of my bi ex being with a woman still makes me feel like I just drank poison. I've had a dream about it; I threw a lot of chairs and then felt very ashamed.

That's odd; why could you handle seeing him with another guy but not a girl Jordan? For me it would (and has been) the same either way. Another person is another person, and personally I'm not sure relationships can really function long-term with more than two people, but I'd be more than happy for someone to prove me wrong. Little human things like possession, desire, pride and jealousy get in the way.

In some ways I thought I'd be more jealous with other boys, like, as if I were being competed with to fill a certain slot, so to speak, but in the end, people are just people, you know? I watch same sex and opposite sex couples interact and it's all the same shit they deal with, the same issues, and even sex itself is basically the same.

Anyway, I dunno if I was really expecting anything long-term, and I agree that two committed relationships probably wouldn't work so well alongside each other. Tonight I kind of came to the conclusion that I should probably step back a bit; there's another guy he's been seeing for longer, a really genuinely nice lad, and he hasn't really taken too kindly to me and I feel like i'm kind of disrupting things between them. It kind of breaks my heart a bit that I could be the source of animosity and jealousy and grief for anybody, or be a disruptive force between any otherwise loving couple, so i think I'll probably have to just leave it be. It's annoying because I've been out with him tonight and it's not like I haven't received a fair bit of attention, but it's really only him that I've been interested in recently. I really am pretty much infatuated. Ha, I really couldn't be polyamorous myself. Monogamous to the core, me.

I'm drunk and delirious with lack of sleep and there's a random guy in my bed (nothing sexual - he's just been a bit lost and upset so i thought I'd give him a place to sleep) snoring loudly, so I'd better sign off before I make a fool of myself with my 5am ramblings. ciao x

I'd be fine with a boyfriend having meaningless sex with another guy, as much as I would with him masturbating. I'd have a problem with him being in love with another guy.
I guess part of why I couldn't handle a boyfriend being with a woman is because I could never give him what she does. Not that what she gives him is better, but it's different; if he wants that persistently, I'd feel inadequate for being unable to give it, and threatened by the fact that half the people in the world could.
It's also the idea of him becoming domesticated, with a wife, a semi-detached house, two-and-a-half children and two cars in the suburbs - in short, everything I didn't want with him, couldn't have had with him, and generally revile. For my beloved, someone who seemed to me eminently exceptional and special, to become so painfully ordinary and vanish into the amorphous mass of the mainstream would be somewhat like seeing an abdicated king working in a call centre, a demigod sweeping the streets, a wild stallion yoked to the plough. And I fear that that's the path of least resistance - it's so much easier to be conventional if the option is open to you, so easy to slide blithely into middle-aged averageness. It would just seem wrong, cruel of the universe to let someone so elevated in my mind become so mediocre and interchangeable - like he had been wasted, like he could have been more with me.
On top of that, it would feel like a betrayal - not of me, but of everything I wanted for us, of the future I imagined for us. I would be happy with him having that with someone else. He'd have abandoned our things, our life, our world - our culture, I suppose - and allowed himself to be swept along in the current against which they stand defiant.
And then there's the feeling that I would have been a phase - a diversion during his youth when he could afford dalliances, before he grew up and did the sensible thing. To me, of course, it was so much more than that. I think of poor Sebastian in Brideshead Revisited.
I recognise that it's irrational, of course.

Jordan~ wrote:I'd be fine with a boyfriend having meaningless sex with another guy

I just wonder how much this would be true in practice; if this sort of thing happens in a long-term relationship it doesn't signal that you have to break up, but it hurts pretty damn bad, however meaningless the sex is.

As for the rest, I don't really agree with the over-generalised view of 'average straight people' so I guess I can't really comment. A lot of what you say seems very grounded in ideals and ideas, I'm just not sure how much that actually means when real love is involved. I'm not questioning your authority on love but I certainly feel differently having had a lot more experience this year.

To illustrate what I'm saying about how sometimes ideals bow down to raw emotion, I found a passage in a book I was reading recently (Marilynne Robinson's Gilead):

There is no justice in love, no proportion in it, and there need not be, because in any specific instance it is only a glimpse or parable of an embracing, incomprehensible reality. It makes no sense at all because it is the eternal breaking in on the temporal. So how could it subordinate itself to cause or consquence?

She's talking about the love between a father and son, but I think it's equally applicable.

Maybe you are the rare person (I've never met one) who can truly live by their ideals, and if so good luck because your life will probably be a lot harder than most.

I mean all this in friendship as well, if that didn't come across.

Well, I think a lot of the pain around infidelity comes from the label "infidelity". It's not innate to the act itself. I just don't recognise the concept - sex, to me, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with love or romance. If I caught my boyfriend sleeping with someone behind my back I would be hurt, but more by the sneaking than anything else, and why would he sneak if I made it clear I was fine with him sleeping with other people? I think the emotional turmoil caused by 'cheating' is tragically unnecessary, borne of a particular way of looking at love and sex. It doesn't say anything about a relationship if one of the parties sleeps with someone else; all it means is that they're also attracted to someone else, which is obvious to begin with. That doesn't imply that they want to be in a relationship with someone else or that they're in love with someone else or that they don't love you.

I should make it clear, that's not my rational view of straight people. I know it's a stereotype, but I can't help but be terrified by the idea of someone I loved becoming ordinary. Even if he wasn't ordinary, he could have the happiest, most passionate marriage and a fascinating biography and it still wouldn't be the life I wanted with him. I suppose that's what frightens me most of all.

For me, my ideals are enforced by my emotions. I think I can honestly say I've never had to resist temptation. I've never been tempted to do anything I didn't - at that moment, at least - think was right. I can't defy my ideals. The idea of defying them barely makes sense to me - they're my ideals, they're a part of me, and in my mind they're so strongly associated with my emotions that they seem inextricable. That's not to say they always serve me right, but my moral integrity is something I take for granted.

i dated a bi who's in couple with one of my friend, not odd at all just...a little bit weird, both had girls sex affair but never cheat with mens, perhaps they consider womans are just sort of animal so it doesn't matter and not involve feelings. onmy mind i really prefer my man dated a man asa woman, i can't be in competition with a man but can be with a woman.

@tom you have to come back

Andrew wrote:In some ways I thought I'd be more jealous with other boys, like, as if I were being competed with to fill a certain slot, so to speak, but in the end, people are just people, you know? I watch same sex and opposite sex couples interact and it's all the same shit they deal with, the same issues, and even sex itself is basically the same.

This whole idea of having different levels of jealousy for different genders is interesting. Personally, I feel closest to this: I'd be less jealous of a man I was into with another man than with a woman because I'd feel more in competition with her than with another man.

Me and my bf (ex) met up for a talk today and I told him I am not going to come back. I feel very sad but at the same time I feel excited to be making plans for myself, making up my own mind about the future. Not being in a relationship.
It's so strange but there is a part of me that I have missed and I'm remembering how I was before we met, it's like I've just picked up from where I left myself. So strange. Hopefully I won't still have the mentalitly of a 13 year old

I think Jordan said something about finding in a relationship what you are missing in yourself, that really struck a chord with me cos I haven't been passionate about anything myself, haven't felt the need to make plans of my own because I have always followed but now I am thinking about what I want to do. Don't feel any restrictions.

We are good too, he seems quite hurt but I think we are ok. I couldn't be without him in my life in some way, he is my family and always will be.

wish for you all is going fine, you both have to deal wih your future relationship but it's not for now. happy you take the bright side of life and find the opportunity to achieve yourself

Thank you Milki I hope it all works out ok for us as friends. Feeling strong about it. My next thing to do is get a place of my own My poor mum and dad have to put up with me for a little longer I guess!

I wish you the very best of luck, QueenOfNerds - it can't have been an easy decision, but I say "well done" for taking the time to think it through and to make a decision based on what YOU want. I hope the ex-b/f is not too upset, too - it must be hard for him and I am sure he will miss having you close by all the time, too.
I hope everything works out well for both of you.

Thank you Steve, that means a lot *hugs*

It's been strange so far. He is now fully in a new relationship but phoning every day. I have to learn to become only his friend but it has been a very steep learning curve as we only broke up officially 2 days ago.

and he's already in a new relationship ? i think it's pretty rude and not nice for you (and the other girl as she's clearly the rebound gal but don't care of her bitch) hug to u

*quack* was that the duck sound?

He had her waiting around till we were over. Well I have to buy my own place now, get better at work, be just generally awesome. That is the aim.

Thank you, I definitely need girly backing up right now *big hugs*