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Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 22:13
by under a CPell
Final Set 11 - Pairings 61 to 65
FIRST DIVISION
Pairing A-61 - Go Long
Pairing A-62 - Have One On Me
Pairing A-63 - Kingfisher
Pairing A-64 - Only Skin
Pairing A-65 - Cosmia

SECOND DIVISION
Pairing B-61 - Peach, Plum, Pear
Pairing B-62 - Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne
Pairing B-63 - Leaving The City
Pairing B-64 - Sadie || Good Intentions Paving Co. tie
Pairing B-65 - Anecdotes

THIRD DIVISION
Pairing C-61 - Goose Eggs || En Gallop! tie
Pairing C-62 - Colleen || Soft As Chalk tie
Pairing C-63 - Autumn
Pairing C-64 - Swansea || Easy tie
Pairing C-65 - Time, As A Symptom

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 28 Dec 2015, 23:41
by Steve
Thank you for your votes, under a CPell.

There are now a little over 3 days left to vote in these, the final 15 pairings of the 2015 JNST.

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 29 Dec 2015, 00:06
by Wanbli
Final Set 11 - Pairings 61 to 65
FIRST DIVISION
Pairing A-61 - Go Long
Pairing A-62 - Sawdust & Diamonds
Pairing A-63 - Monkey & Bear
Pairing A-64 - Emily
Pairing A-65 - Cosmia

SECOND DIVISION
Pairing B-61 - Peach, Plum, Pear
Pairing B-62 - A Pin-Light Bent
Pairing B-63 - On A Good Day
Pairing B-64 - Good Intentions Paving Co.
Pairing B-65 - Anecdotes

THIRD DIVISION
Pairing C-61 - Goose Eggs
Pairing C-62 - Colleen
Pairing C-63 - Autumn
Pairing C-64 - Swansea
Pairing C-65 - Time, As A Symptom

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 29 Dec 2015, 21:03
by Headless_Caboose
Final Set 11 - Pairings 61 to 65
FIRST DIVISION
Pairing A-61 - Baby Birch
Pairing A-62 - Sawdust & Diamonds
Pairing A-63 - Monkey & Bear
Pairing A-64 - Only Skin
Pairing A-65 - Cosmia

SECOND DIVISION
Pairing B-61 - '81
Pairing B-62 - Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne
Pairing B-63 - On A Good Day
Pairing B-64 - Sadie
Pairing B-65 - Anecdotes

THIRD DIVISION
Pairing C-61 - Goose Eggs
Pairing C-62 - Colleen
Pairing C-63 - Autumn
Pairing C-64 - Easy
Pairing C-65 - Clam, Crab, Cockle, Cowrie

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 29 Dec 2015, 22:25
by Steve
Thank you for your votes, Wanbli and Headless_Caboose.

There are now just two days and a few hours left to vote in this final set of pairings of the 2015 Tournament.

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 30 Dec 2015, 03:03
by kev23
Final Set 11 - Pairings 61 to 65
FIRST DIVISION
Pairing A-61 - Baby Birch
Pairing A-62 - Sawdust & Diamonds
Pairing A-63 - Monkey & Bear
Pairing A-64 - Emily
Pairing A-65 - In California

SECOND DIVISION
Pairing B-61 - '81
Pairing B-62 - Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne
Pairing B-63 - Leaving The City
Pairing B-64 - Sadie
Pairing B-65 - Anecdotes

THIRD DIVISION
Pairing C-61 - Goose Eggs
Pairing C-62 - Colleen
Pairing C-63 - Ribbon Bows
Pairing C-64 - Swansea
Pairing C-65 - Time, As A Symptom

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 30 Dec 2015, 18:29
by solfatara
Final Set 11 - Pairings 61 to 65
FIRST DIVISION
Pairing A-61 - Go Long
Pairing A-62 - Sawdust & Diamonds || Have One On Me (tie)
Pairing A-63 - Kingfisher
Pairing A-64 - Only Skin
Pairing A-65 - In California

SECOND DIVISION
Pairing B-61 - '81 || Peach, Plum, Pear (tie)
Pairing B-62 - Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne
Pairing B-63 - Leaving The City
Pairing B-64 - Good Intentions Paving Co.
Pairing B-65 - Anecdotes || You Will Not Take My Heart Alive (tie)

THIRD DIVISION
Pairing C-61 - Goose Eggs
Pairing C-62 - Soft As Chalk
Pairing C-63 - Ribbon Bows
Pairing C-64 - Easy
Pairing C-65 - Time, As A Symptom

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 31 Dec 2015, 20:43
by Steve
Thank you to Kev23 and solfatara for your votes.

Having checked my map, I will be prepared to believe that the entire MM community has moved to the Howland, Baker & Jarvis Islands, in order to extend 2015 (and hence the voting window) for a total of 12 hours beyond midnight here in the UK. So if anyone has not yet voted in this final set of pairings, please do so within the next 15¼ hours.

I aim to tally the scores and post the final results as soon after noon on 1 January UK time as possible.

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 31 Dec 2015, 21:26
by Julia
Final Set 11 - Pairings 61 to 65
FIRST DIVISION
Pairing A-61 - Baby Birch
Pairing A-62 - Sawdust & Diamonds
Pairing A-63 - Monkey & Bear
Pairing A-64 - Only Skin / Emily (tie)
Pairing A-65 - In California

SECOND DIVISION
Pairing B-61 - Peach, Plum, Pear
Pairing B-62 - Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne
Pairing B-63 - Leaving The City
Pairing B-64 - Good Intentions Paving Co.
Pairing B-65 - Anecdotes

THIRD DIVISION
Pairing C-61 - Goose Eggs
Pairing C-62 - Colleen
Pairing C-63 - Ribbon Bows
Pairing C-64 - Easy
Pairing C-65 - Time, As A Symptom

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 31 Dec 2015, 22:24
by Steve
Thank you for your votes, Julia

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 02 Jan 2016, 01:19
by Steve
And Julia's vote concludes the voting for this season.

Here are the results from the final pairings ...

2015 Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V
Final

Final Set 11 - Pairings 61 to 66
FIRST DIVISION
Pairing A-61 - Baby Birch 6 Go Long 5 (PP 5.45 : 4.55 )
Pairing A-62 - Sawdust & Diamonds 7 Have One On Me 4 (PP 6.36 : 3.64 )
Pairing A-63 - Monkey & Bear 6 Kingfisher 5 (PP 5.45 : 4.55 )
Pairing A-64 - Only Skin 7 Emily 4 (PP 6.36 : 3.64 )
Pairing A-65 - In California 7 Cosmia 4 (PP 6.36 : 3.64 )

SECOND DIVISION
Pairing B-61 - '81 4 Peach, Plum, Pear 7 (PP 3.64 : 6.36 )
Pairing B-62 - A Pin-Light Bent 4 Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne 7 (PP 3.64 : 6.36 )
Pairing B-63 - On A Good Day 4 Leaving The City 7 (PP 3.64 : 6.36 )
Pairing B-64 - Sadie 5.5 Good Intentions Paving Co. 5.5 (PP 5 : 5 )
Pairing B-65 - Anecdotes 10.5 You Will Not Take My Heart Alive 0.5 (PP 9.55 : 0.45 )

THIRD DIVISION
Pairing C-61 - Goose Eggs 3.5 En Gallop! 7.5 (PP 3.18 : 6.82 )
Pairing C-62 - Colleen 6.5 Soft As Chalk 4.5 (PP 5.91 : 4.09 )
Pairing C-63 - Ribbon Bows 7 Autumn 4 (PP 6.36 : 3.64 )
Pairing C-64 - Swansea 5.5 Easy 5.5 (PP 5 : 5 )
Pairing C-65 - Time, As A Symptom 9 Clam, Crab, Cockle, Cowrie 2 (PP 8.18 : 1.82 )

And the final tables for each of the divisions ...

Code: Select all
2015 JOANNA NEWSOM SONG TOURNAMENT V - FIRST DIVISION
SCORES AFTER SET 11
......... Song ..........  P  W  D  L   V  WP  PP  BP   Pts
1  Only Skin ……………………………  10 10  0  0  64 100  83  19   202
2  Emily ………………………………………  10  6  1  3  42  65  56  18   139
3  In California …………………  10  5  3  2  43  65  54  17   136
4  Sapokanikan ………………………  10  5  3  2  37  65  50  14   129
5  Have One On Me ………………  10  4  3  3  38  55  50  18   123
6  Cosmia ……………………………………  10  4  1  5  37  45  47  18   109
7  Go Long …………………………………  10  4  1  5  35  45  45  17   107
8  Baby Birch …………………………  10  3  1  6  33  35  41  16    92
9  Monkey & Bear …………………  10  2  2  6  31  30  38  15    84
10 Kingfisher …………………………  10  2  1  7  33  25  43  16    83
11 Sawdust & Diamonds ……  10  2  0  8  35  20  44  18    82

2015 JOANNA NEWSOM SONG TOURNAMENT V - SECOND DIVISION
SCORES AFTER SET 11
......... Song ..........  P  W  D  L   V  WP  PP  BP   Pts
1  Anecdotes ……………………………  10  8  2  0  61  90  76  11   177
2  Divers ……………………………………  10  8  1  1  45  85  61   9   155
3  Sadie ………………………………………  10  7  2  1  48  80  62  13   154
4  Good Intentions PC ……  10  5  4  1  46  70  60  12   143
5  WoT 101. Lightborne …  10  6  2  2  46  70  60  12   141
6  Peach, Plum, Pear ………  10  4  1  5  40  45  50  10   106
7  YWNT My Heart Alive …  10  3  1  6  32  35  42  11    89
8  Leaving The City …………  10  3  0  7  32  30  39   9    78
9  A Pin-Light Bent …………  10  1  1  8  32  15  41  12    68
10 On A Good Day …………………  10  1  1  8  23  15  30   9    53.1
11 ’81 ……………………………………………  10  1  1  8  23  15  29   9    52.5

2015 JOANNA NEWSOM SONG TOURNAMENT V - THIRD DIVISION
SCORES AFTER SET 11
......... Song ..........  P  W  D  L   V  WP  PP  BP   Pts
1  Time, As a Symptom ……  10  9  1  0  51  95  64  11   170
2  Easy …………………………………………  10  7  2  1  49  80  65  12   157
3  Soft As Chalk …………………  10  7  1  2  50  75  66  12   152
4  Autumn ……………………………………  10  6  1  3  46  65  60   8   132
5  Goose Eggs …………………………  10  5  1  4  42  55  54   9   118
6  Colleen …………………………………  10  5  1  4  38  55  48  12   115
7  Ribbon Bows ………………………  10  4  1  5  40  45  52   7   104
8  Swansea …………………………………  10  3  2  5  38  40  48  12   101
9  En Gallop! …………………………  10  3  0  7  35  30  45  10    85
10 Clam, Crab, CC ………………  10  1  0  9  23  10  31  11    53
11 Yarn And Glue …………………  10  0  0 10  13   0  17   6    22


These tables have been corrected (but not the previous ones) in respect to errors I made when tallying the records of Have One On Me and Anecdotes. Have One On Me had ties in both sets 9 & 10, and Anecdotes tied in sets 3 & 4. Because I looked at two sets at a time, and each of these songs scored 10 WP for the pair of sets in question, I unthinkingly entered this on my charts as one win and one loss, whereas it should have been no wins, 2 ties, and no losses. It makes no difference to the final order - or even to the final points - but it does mean that Anecdotes went through the Division 3 programme without suffering any losses. Oh - and I've corrected the spelling of her name: I can't believe I've not noticed that before, and I am sure it's been wrong in previous years, too!

I therefore declare that the winner of the Vth Joanna Newsom Song Tournament, 2015, is
drum roll .... prepare for look of surprise ...
:notworthy: Only Skin :rock:

Further analysis will follow in a little while ...

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 02 Jan 2016, 19:27
by Steve
2015 JOANNA NEWSON SONG TOURNAMENT V

FULL TABLE OF FINAL POSITIONS

1 Only Skin
2 Emily
3 In California
4 Sapokanikan
5 Have One On Me
6 Cosmia
7 Go Long
8 Baby Birch
9 Monkey & Bear
10 Kingfisher
11 Sawdust & Diamonds
12 Anecdotes
13 Divers
14 Sadie
15 Good Intentions Paving Company
16 Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne
17 Peach, Plum, Pear
18 You Will Not Take My Heart Alive
19 Leaving The City
20 A Pin-Light Bent
21 On A Good Day
22 ’81
23 Time, As a Symptom
24 Easy
25 Soft As Chalk
26 Autumn
27 Goose Eggs
28 Colleen
29 Ribbon Bows
30 Swansea
31 En Gallop!
32 Clam, Crab, Cockle, Cowrie
33 Yarn And Glue
34 Same Old Man
35 Bridges And Balloons
36 Does Not Suffice
37 Esme
38 No Provenance
39 Occident
40 Ca’ The Yowes To The Knowes
41 Three Little Babes
42 The Fray
43 Inflammatory Writ
44 Instrumental 1999
45 Sprout And The Bean
46 Jackrabbits
47 What We Have Known
48 Prepared Harp Improv.
49 You And Me, Bess
50 The Book Of Right-On
51 The North Star Grassman And The Ravens
52 Flying A Kite
53 We Are The Doctor [P]
54 The Things I Say
55 The Man Who Ran The Town [HS/JN]
56 Erin
57 Cassiopeia
58 Little Wing
59 This Side Of The Blue
60 Man’s Road
61 Another Day [RH/JN]
62 Kindness Be Conceived [TG]
63 Against The Sky [VB]
64 If I Were [VB]
=65 Angel
=65 Tom Bombadil
67 Picture [RP/JN]
68 No Style [P]
69 Our Anniversary [S]
70 Spooks [JG, GC, DG, JN]
71 Do You Know Who You Are? [GS]
72 You & Me [KB]
73 Ring The Living Bell [JN/S/WW]
74 Under The Paving Stones, The Beach! [JG, CG, CD, JN]
75 One Horse [P]
76 Good Heart, Money And Rain [MB]
77 Shame [DB/V/JN+friends]
78 Sycamore [BC]
79 Amerilie [V]
80 The Honey, The Power, The Light [GS]
81 Rock Bottom Riser [S]
82 Colorchains Of Inner Space [NC]
83 Bring Me Down [GS]
84 Sympathy [GS]
85 Lifetime [RF/LM]
86 Exit (aka Orderly Manor) [P]
87 Amour Fou [V]
88 Through The Trees [RF/LM]
89 Never Come Home [P]
90 River Guard [BC]
=91 Another Disaster [P]
=91 Eleven Continents [RF/LM]
=91 If You Can Afford It [P]
=91 Mountain [GS]
=91 Swift Nude [P]
=91 untitled (from One Piece From The Middle) [P]
=97 Don't Make Things [P]
=97 Intermission (aka I The Province) [P]
=97 Oh Canada [P]
=97 Pow Strikes Pow Implosion [NC]
=97 Roots [DB/V/JN/E/SN]
=97 Secret [P]
=97 The Muppet Show Theme [M]
=97 The Wheel [BC]
=97 Wake Up Instead [P]
=106 About Me [P]
=106 Dreams [DB/JN/V]
=106 Hear Me Marching [P]
=106 I'm Already Gone (aka Already Gone) [P]
=106 Life's A Happy Song (Finale) [M]
=106 Mountain & Bear [KB]
=106 Orange Peter [P]
=106 R.U. In [P]
=106 The Conversation [P]
=115 7 Minutes In Heaven [MOB/JN]
=115 France [PG/JN/TF]
=115 Let Go [P]
=115 Little Picture Of You [KB]
=115 Ras Trent [LI]
=115 Setting The Bushes On Fire [NC]
=115 The French Lieutenant Dreams [JN/TF]
=115 The Orchard [PG/JN/TF]
=115 This Is Just To Say
=124 Franks Vs Frank [NC]
=124 Get Wolf Boy And Get In Context [NC]
=124 Ill Pearls [NC]
=124 Nonrum Nonproblem [NC]
=124 Nuflesh, Old Thirst [NC]
=124 Rice Precipitation [NC]
=124 The Hawk Feeds You To Feed Itself [NC]
=124 We Are A Crowd [LI]
unplaced - Happy Birthday To You (this traditional song was performed live late in 2015, but I was unaware of it until the tournament was almost finished)

Composition of the Final round

The First Division consisted of all of the top eleven songs, based on average positions in previous JNSTs,
which is somewhat remarkable, given the relatively small voter turn-out in this year's JNST. This even included Sapokanikan, which had reached 11th place in the cumulative chart on the basis of a handful of live performances, and their (flawed) recordings on YouTube.

The next nine songs in the cumulative chart all made it through to the Final round, but only three of them, Sadie (14th), Good Intentions Paving Company (17th), and Peach Plum Pear (20th), were in the Second
Division. Here they were joined by two 'slow burners' from HOOM (On A Good Day and '81, respectively 25th and 26th in the cumulative chart), and four new songs from Divers (ignoring the fact that Anecdotes made a tentative appearance in JNST4 on the basis of just one voter who had access to it). This division was completed by two more Divers songs that were making their first real appearance, albeit that Divers itself and Leaving The City had, like Sapokanikan, enjoyed a presence in previous JNSTs as a result of live recordings.

As well as the six songs alluded to above (Swansea, Colleen, Easy, Clam Crab Cockle Cowrie, Soft As Chalk, and En Gallop), all from positions 12-20 in the previous cumulative chart, the Third Division included two
brand new songs from the new album, Goose Eggs and Time As A Sympton. Placed onl 33rd and 42nd in the cumulative chart, two more HOOM representatives, Autumn and Ribbon Bows, also enjoyed a rise in
popularity to gain a place in this division. And they were joined by the year's major surprise package,
Yarn And Glue, which has only even been released on an early EP (and now on DVD), and whose previous
position in the cumulative chart was a lowly 44th.

Perhaps we have fallen out of love just a little with her early career. Ten songs not previously in the top 33 made it through to the final stage this year, and so of course, ten songs that previously held those positions have slipped down. Of these, four are from MEM, one is the MEM-era single, and one is from an early EP.
The remaining four are all from HOOM. The full list of these 10 songs, in prior order, is: Bridges And Balloons, Does Not Suffice, Flying A Kite, Sprout And The Bean, The Book Of Right-One, You And Me Bess,
No Provenance, Esme, What We Have Known, and This Side Of The Blue.

The Composition of the Final round was therefore:

Code: Select all
....... Div 1   Div 2   Div 3   Final   as % of   Max

e/EP/s     -      -       1       1      14%      7
MEM        -      2       3       5      42%     12
Ys         5      -       -       5     100%      5
HOOM       5      3       5      13      72%     18
Divers     1      6       2       9      82%     11
unrel      -      -       -       0       0%      9
collab     -      -       -       0       0%     69

Total     11     11      11      33      25%    131


(e/EP/s = early, EPs, singles; unrel = unreleased solo; collab = collaborations).
(Some songs could fit into more than one category: I exclude those on MEM from the EP/single category,
and I count as unreleased those collaborations on which Joanna is the main performer or vocalist. I termed
he first category 'early / EPs / singles', so as to also catch Instrumental 1999, What We Have Known, and
Colleen).


The chart shows that we value the majority of HOOM and Divers within the top 33 songs, which happens
to equate to the top 25% of her output, along with the entirety of Ys, but only a minority (42%) of MEM.

SOME NOTES ON THE FINAL RESULT

The outcome of Division 1, and of the Tournament as a whole, was victory to Only Skin: so surprise there, as it has won every JNST to date, and has never really come under much threat.
Until JNST5, Only Skin had not only won every pairing or group it contested, but also had the overall best record (or at least the equal-best) across every single round of all JNSTs.
This time, though, it did lose that record. In Round 2, its tally of 33 points was exceeded by the 34 scored by Kingfisher, Sapokanikan, Emily, Sadie, and Sawdust & Diamonds. Kingfisher, rather than Only Skin, recorded the highest percentage of points in this round.
In Round 3, Only Skin scored 27 points, equivalent to 46% of the points awarded in its group, but both of these figures were beaten by those of Have One On Me, with 29 points (49%).
With the above comments in mind, then, it was perhaps surprising that Only Skin won at such a canter, coming out on top in all 10 pairings, and garnering substantially more votes than any other song, a total of 83% of those available.

The runner-up spot went, not to Kingfisher or Have One On Me (despite these songs' successes mentioned above), but to Emily, which thus recorded its highest ever position, having previously finished 5th, 3rd, 3rd, and 3rd.
The runner-up from 2013 and 2014, Sawdust & Diamonds, unexpectedly tumbled to 11th spot, having never previously finished out of the top five.
Climbing to 3rd, its highest position since 2011, was In California. This song actually received more votes than any other except for Only Skin.
Sapokanikan became the best-performing song from Divers, perhaps benefitting from the early release of the video, which allowed us all to get that much more familiar with the polished version. It had however finished 13th in each of the previous two JNSTs, purely on the strength of live performances.
Completing the top five was Have One On Me, and in fact there was not very much between the songs in 2nd to 5th positions.

The remaining songs in the First Division also performed well, and were not very far behind in terms of numbers of votes received. Monkey & Bear received the fewest votes, yet still finished 9th, above two other songs, by the narrowest of margins.
Even the 11th (and last) placed song in the division, Sawdust & Diamonds, won two of its pairings, comfortably beating Kingfisher, and also besting Have One on Me.
I suppose this is a good justification for the method chosen to decide the top placings, and also highlights the fact that we might come up with different results when asked to chose between two songs, rather than ordering a list of three or more.

Division Two was dominated by Anecdotes, which therefore claimed 12th place overall, although it did tie with both Sadie and Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne.
Divers proved to be our second most popular song from the new album, narrowly beating Sadie (the top MEM song, which actually received more votes than Divers) into 13th spot overall.
Next came Good Intentions Paving Co., by just a couple of points from Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne, which had a remarkably similar record in the division.
It was very close at the foot of the Second Division, where less than 1 point separated On A Good Day from '81, and it was also interesting that every song in this division won at least one pairing.

Time, As A Symptom was the unbeaten winner of the Third Division, giving it 23rd place overall.
I was sad to see the wonderful En Gallop slipping out of the top 30 for the first time, despite winning 3 pairings. It occupied the middle position of a run of three MEM songs.
Only the surprise qualifier, Yarn And Glue, fared below these three, failing to win (or even tie) any of its ten pairings, and receiving an average of only 1¼ votes per pairing.

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 03 Jan 2016, 23:20
by solfatara
Wow, Steve, thanks for this thorough summing up and of course for running the tournament again this year! It was interesting to see how the new album fit into everything - I'm not sure if I'm surprised or not that Sapokanikan did best out of the new songs...
I am however a little bit surprised that Emily is in 2nd place, I don't exactly know why, haha...

Just to see how the list differs from my personal tastes, here's my top 10 (of today I guess haha) however the top 8 at least I can't really rank in any particular and persistent order

In California
Only Skin
Divers
Have One On Me
Sapokanikan
Ribbon Bows
Sawdust & Diamonds
Go Long
No Provenance
Anecdotes

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 04 Jan 2016, 21:18
by Steve
Thank you for your kind comments, solfatara. I hope you enjoyed taking part in and following the tournament as much as I did.

I was interested to run at your personal top ten. I'm sure if I did one, it would be liable to change the very next time I thought about it. That said, my top two are pretty much set in stone for the moment, so here's my current opinion:
1) Only Skin
2) En Gallop
3/4) Divers, Baby Birch
5-11) Kingfisher, Go Long, Emily, Sawdust & Diamonds, In California, Cosmia (the ep version), Flying A Kite
12-22) Soft As Chalk, Goose Eggs (these two have a similar feel, for me), Erin, Bridges & Balloons, Have One On Me, Anecdotes, Waltz of the 101st Lightborne, Sadie, What We Have Known, This Side of the Blue, Ribbon Bows...

Also, I couldn't stop at 10, and I still haven't mentioned Sapokanikan, Pin Light, Clam Crab, The Fray, No Style, The Man Who Ran The Town, and many others.

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 05 Jan 2016, 00:12
by nightjar_
I would also like to take a moment to thank you for (and be genuinely amazed with) the thorough analysis provided. You must truly enjoy Joanna Newsom... and statistics! :notworthy:

I am unable to make a true "top" 10 of JN songs, but I'd like to take this opportunity to share what my (current) favorites are, in reverse chronological order:
Time, As a Symptom
A Pin-Light Bent
Anecdotes
Kingfisher
Go Long
In California
Baby Birch
Only Skin
Sawdust & Diamonds
Clam, Crab, Cockle, Cowrie (Ys Street Band version)

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 05 Jan 2016, 15:28
by Steve
Hello again nightjar_, and thank you, too, for your kind comments.

Yes I do :)

I looked at your list, and thought that, with the exception of Time (not that I dislike it, but it hasn't yet grabbed me as firmly as many), that it could be my own list. And then I looked again at solfatara's, and again had exactly the same impression, except I wouldn't include No Provenance. I would, however, urge you (now the JNST is over for another season!) to give En Gallop another listen! It can get lost among the other MEM songs, but perhaps try listening to it in isolation, and then see if it doesn't deserve a place in anyone's favourites. Whether it does or not, though, I think it's great that we can enjoy Joanna's music, perhaps all in slightly different ways, and that it touches us all deeply.

Soon I intend to put up a bit more analysis - a summary of JNST1-5, and an attempt to find - if you'll excuse the slightly sexist terminology - our own version of 'Basildon Man' - the 'typical' voter.

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 05 Jan 2016, 18:08
by Jordan~
I'm surprised that Sapokanikan did best from Divers! Maybe it's because it was the first song we had in its entirety, but I sort of got fed up of it (relatively speaking) quickest. Also surprising in general that the old numbers continue to perform so well - would have thought there'd be three or four, maybe even five or six, Divers songs in the top ten!

Do you have the data available to tell us all what our top 10s are, as we voted for them?

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 06 Jan 2016, 01:34
by Steve
Hi Jordan~
I wanted to say something similar to you about Sapokanikan, but could not find a way to express it without suggesting that I am in any way 'fed up' with that song. But I do find myself overlooking it, when listening to Divers, and mentally previewing what's coming next.
I think I should be able to construct some individual top 10s from the votes cast: the information isn't perfect (for instance - if you vote for song A ahead of song B, but B gets the majority verdict, then A does not appear up against the other more popular ones in the next round), but I will see what I can do over the next few days.

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 06 Jan 2016, 02:36
by Steve
In the meantime, though, here is a list of every song together with its positions in each of the five JNSTs to date. The songs are listed in an order which averages their relative position within the entry for each year, but (in a departure from the similar lists I've posted in previous years) this average is weighted to give more emphasis on more recent years, so that the 2015 positions are weighted at 1, those from 2014 are weighted at 1/2, 2013 are at 1/3, 2012 at 1/4, and 2011 at 1/5. Where this results in a tie, songs are shown without a blank line separating them. (It is appreciated that this method still does not address fully the downgrading of songs which had previously appeared in little-known or poorer quality versions, but it is an improvement on a simple average, and the detrimental effect will decrease as the early appearances attract lower and lower weightings).

The song titles are colour coded to indicate the official album on which the song can be found: I've kept this simple by classing everything not on one of the main four albums as 'miscellaneous':
MEM
Ys
HOOM
Divers
miscellaneous


2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Title

001 001 0001 0001 0001 Only Skin

005 003 0003 0003 0002 Emily

002 004 0009 0004 0003 In California

007 002 0005 0006 0005 Have One On Me

004 006 0004 0005 0006 Cosmia

003 005 0002 0002 0011 Sawdust & Diamonds

006 010 0008 0007 0007 Go Long

---- ---- 0013 0013 0004 Sapokanikan

010 007 0007 0008 0008 Baby Birch

009 009 0006 0011 0009 Monkey & Bear

013 008 0010 0009 0010 Kingfisher

015 014 0017 0010 0014 Sadie

---- ---- ---- ---- 0016 Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne

014 019 0016 0016 0015 Good Intentions Paving Company

---- ---- ---- ---- 0018 You Will Not Take My Heart Alive

017 012 0014 0014 0024 Easy

---- ---- ---- ---- 0020 A Pin-Light Bent

008 012 0015 0012 0030 Swansea

012 011 0012 0017 0028 Colleen

029 015 0011 0015 0025 Soft As Chalk

019 018 0037 0018 0017 Peach, Plum, Pear

---- ---- ---- ---- 0023 Time, As A Symptom

011 017 0018 0019 0032 Clam Crab Cockle Cowrie

022 033 0028 0022 0021 On A Good Day

---- 042 0033 0031 0013 Divers

028 030 0021 0025 0022 ’81

---- ---- ---- ---- 0027 Goose Eggs

025 016 0020 0024 0031 "En Gallop" (aka En Gallop!)

026 022 0022 0020 0035 Bridges And Balloons

---- ---- 0040 =039 0019 Leaving The City

056 021 0023 0023 0026 Autumn

024 020 0024 0027 0036 Does Not Suffice

031 024 0039 0021 0038 No Provenance

032 027 0029 0028 0037 Esme

049 040 0041 0026 0029 Ribbon Bows

020 029 0019 =036 0045 Sprout And The Bean

034 032 0036 0032 0039 Occident

040 037 0025 0033 0040 Ca’ The Yowes To The Knowes

023 026 0032 0029 0049 You And Me, Bess

016 025 0030 0034 0052 Flying A Kite

018 028 0026 0038 0050 The Book Of Right-On

038 035 0043 0048 0033 Yarn And Glue

027 023 0031 0043 0047 What We Have Known

---- ---- ---- =096 0012 Anecdotes

030 034 0046 =039 0043 Inflammatory Writ

050 036 0044 0030 0046 Jackrabbits

041 043 0045 0044 0042 The Fray

036 031 0034 =036 0056 Erin

021 038 0027 =039 0059 This Side Of The Blue

057 045 0038 0046 0041 Three Little Babes

---- ---- 0042 0035 0054 The Things I Say

039 039 0035 0042 0057 Cassiopeia

---- ---- 0056 0047 0051 The North Star Grassman And The Ravens

---- 046 0047 0045 0044 Instrumental 1999

---- ---- 0052 =051 0055 The Man Who Ran The Town [HS/JN]

033 048 =049 =049 0058 Little Wing

---- 049 0048 =051 0061 Another Day [RH/JN]

053 041 =054 =054 0060 Man’s Road

037 =51 0051 =056 0064 If I Were [VB]

055 =51 0076 =061 0048 Prepared Harp Improv.

---- =51 0053 =063 =065 Tom Bombadil

043 050 =054 0053 0073 Ring The Living Bell [JN/S/WW]

035 044 =049 =049 0081 Rock Bottom Riser [S]

---- ---- 0059 =070 0062 Kindness Be Conceived [TG]

=58 =51 0061 =056 0063 Against The Sky [VB]

048 047 0062 =070 0069 Our Anniversary [S]

---- ---- ---- ---- 0070 Spooks [JG, GC, DG, JN]

046 =60 0057 =070 0071 Do You Know Who You Are? [GS]

=58 =56 0073 =068 =065 Angel

=58 =51 0058 =061 0078 Sycamore [BC]

---- ---- ---- ---- 0074 Under The Paving Stones, The Beach! [JG, CG, CD, JN]

=58 =60 =107 =100 0034 Same Old Man

047 =79 0092 =076 0053 We Are The Doctor [P]

=44 =60 0077 =066 0076 Good Heart, Money And Rain [MB]

=58 =60 0060 0060 0080 The Honey, The Power, The Light [GS]

=58 =58 0063 =056 0090 River Guard [BC]

---- ---- =079 =086 0072 You & Me [KB]

=58 =56 0074 =096 0067 Picture [RP/JN]

=58 =79 0078 =070 0068 No Style [P]

---- ---- 0065 =076 0084 Sympathy [GS]

---- ---- 0068 =076 0083 Bring Me Down [GS]

042 =60 =085 =070 0085 Lifetime [RF/LM]

054 =60 =097 0059 0086 Exit (aka Orderly Manor) [P]

=58 =60 =069 =068 0087 Amour Fou [V]

=44 =79 =066 =070 0089 Never Come Home [P]

---- ---- 0072 0104 0077 Shame [DB/V/JN+friends]

=58 =77 0075 =086 0079 Amerilie [V]

=58 =60 =069 =076 0088 Through The Trees [RF/LM]

=58 =60 =107 =054 =091 If You Can Afford It [P]

=58 =60 0071 =089 =091 Eleven Continents [RF/LM]

=58 =79 0105 =089 0075 One Horse [P]

=58 =77 =066 =089 =091 Mountain [GS]

=58 =58 0091 =076 =097 Oh Canada [P]

=58 =79 =079 0085 =091 Another Disaster [P]

=58 =60 =107 =066 =097 Don't Make Things [P]

=58 =60 =093 =076 =097 Intermission (aka I The Province) [P]

052 =79 =115 =076 =091 Swift Nude [P]

---- ---- 0102 =089 =091 untitled (from One Piece From The Middle) [P]

=58 =79 0088 =076 =097 Secret [P]

=58 =79 0101 =106 0082 Colorchains Of Inner Space [NC]

=58 =79 0064 0105 =097 The Wheel [BC]

=58 =79 =103 =063 =106 About Me [P]

=58 =79 0106 0065 =106 I'm Already Gone (aka Already Gone) [P]

---- ---- 0087 =086 =106 Mountain & Bear [KB]

=58 =79 0099 =089 =097 Wake Up Instead [P]

---- =60 =085 =110 =097 The Muppet Show Theme [M]

---- ---- 0081 =110 =097 Roots [DB/V/JN/E/SN]

=58 =60 =107 =096 =106 Orange Peter [P]

---- =60 0095 =106 =106 Life's A Happy Song Finale [M]

---- ---- 0090 =100 =106 Dreams [DB/JN/V]

---- ---- 0100 0095 =106 The Conversation [P]

---- ---- =097 0099 =106 Hear Me Marching [P]

051 =60 0082 =100 =124 Franks Vs Frank [NC]

=58 =79 0083 =089 =115 Let Go [P]

=58 =79 0096 =110 =097 Pow Strikes Pow Implosion [NC]

=58 =79 =115 =076 =115 Little Picture Of You [KB]

---- =79 0084 =106 =115 This Is Just To Say

=58 =79 =115 =106 =106 R.U. In [P]

=58 =79 =103 =100 =115 Ras Trent [LI]

---- =60 =115 =110 =115 The Orchard [PG/JN/TF]

=58 =79 0089 =110 =124 Hawk Feeds You To Feed Itself [NC]

=58 =79 =093 =110 =124 Ill Pearls [NC]

---- =79 =107 =110 =115 France [PG/JN/TF]
---- =79 =107 =110 =115 The French Lieutenant Dreams [JN/TF]

=58 =79 =115 =110 =115 Setting The Bushes On Fire [NC]

---- ---- ---- =110 =115 7 Minutes In Heaven [MOB/JN]

=58 =79 =107 =110 =124 Nuflesh, Old Thirst [NC]
=58 =79 =107 =110 =124 Rice Precipitation [NC]

=58 =79 =115 =110 =124 Get Wolf Boy And Get In Context [NC]
=58 =79 =115 =110 =124 Nonrum Nonproblem [NC]

---- ---- =115 =110 =124 We Are A Crowd [LI]

---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Happy Birthday To You

Re: Joanna Newsom Song Tournament V (2015)

PostPosted: 25 Jan 2016, 00:01
by Steve
Jordan~ asked:
Do you have the data available to tell us all what our top 10s are, as we voted for them?


I have attempted to make lists for the following voters:
    Alex_Ysoltsev
    butterbean
    Headless_Caboose
    Jordan~
    madpawn
    solfatara
    Steve
    under a CPell

That proved to be rather more difficult than I had guessed, but a really engrossing nonetheless. I used some fairly shaky mathematics to try to achieve this, and I would be very interested to know how accurate these lists are. I would caution (having looked at mine) that the songs from Divers are probably down-rated on here, because I have grown to like them more in the weeks between voting and the present. EDIT: I was the only one who didn't have 'Anecdotes' near the top of my list, whereas if I were to vote again now, it would be. So perhaps that comment only applied to me! One thing my list does bear out, though, is that an early vote for one of the 'less favoured' songs can be unduly magnified in the final analysis: my list shows FIVE songs tied for 1st, but 'Flying A Kite' comes in a bit higher than I'd place it on a free vote, and I'm very surprised that 'Erin' and 'Inflammatory Writ' appear anywhere near as high as this in my lists. It can only be because I gave them one favourable vote in an early round, and then they dropped out of the tournament, and so didn't have the opportunity to be compared with other better-liked songs and therefore they carried forward an inflated 'score'.

There was barely enough information to make this a meaningful exercise, but I think it is probably worth doing for the eight people who cast votes in the majority of sets in the final round. However, I also considered votes cast in Rounds 2 & 3, so some lists include songs that did not make our final round of 33. The number of songs appearing in each person's list varies. My method gave rise to a 'score' for each song, and I considered it unreasonable to include any song with a negative score - it's probably true to say, though, that if there is any accuracy in these lists at all - it diminishes significantly the further down each list you go.

ALEX_YSOLTSEV
1 Peach Plum Pear - 29
2 Sapokanikan - 27
3 Good Intentions Paving Co. - 26
4 Only Skin - 25
=5 Monkey & Bear - 22
=5 On A Good Day - 22
=5 Time, As A Symptom - 22
8 Goose Eggs - 20
9 Emily - 19
10 Anecdotes - 18
11 Leaving The City - 10
12 Autumn - 8
=13 Cosmia - 6
=13 Esme - 6
15 Go Long - 4
=16 Swansea - 2
=16 En Gallop - 2
=16 Occident - 2

BUTTERBEAN
1 Time, As A Symptom - 31
=2 Ribbon Bows - 28
=2 Same Old Man - 28
4 Soft As Chalk - 25
5 Colleen - 23
=6 A Pin-Light Bent - 16
=6 Anecdotes - 16
=6 No Provenance - 16
=9 Sawdust & Diamonds - 11
=9 Autumn - 11
=9 The Fray - 11
12 Swansea - 10
=13 Sapokanikan - 9
=13 Sadie - 9
=13 '81 - 9
=16 In California - 7
=16 Sprout & The Bean - 7
=18 Baby Birch - 5
=18 Leaving The City - 5
20 Only Skin - 3
=21 Go Long - 1
=21 Peach Plum Pear - 1

HEADLESS_CABOOSE
=1 Only Skin - 34
=1 Anecdotes - 34
3 Emily - 31
=4 Cosmia - 28
=4 Monkey & Bear - 28
=6 Sawdust & Diamonds - 25
=6 Does Not Suffice - 25
8 Have One On Me - 23
=9 Sapokanikan - 20
=9 Sadie - 20
11 Divers - 12
=12 Baby Birch - 10
=12 Kingfisher - 10
=12 Good Intentions Paving Co. - 10
=12 Easy - 10
=12 Colleen - 10
17 Autumn - 6
=18 Go Long - 4
=18 No Provenance - 4
20 Jackrabbits - 2

JORDAN~
=1 Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne - 33
=1 Does Not Suffice - 33
=3 Only Skin - 28
=3 Have One On Me - 28
5 Monkey & Bear - 26
=6 In California - 22
=6 Time, As A Symptom - 22
=8 Kingfisher - 20
=8 Anecdotes - 20
10 Goose Eggs - 16
11 Emily - 14
12 Sapokanikan - 12
=13 Easy - 10
=13 The Things I Say - 10
=15 You Will Not Take My Heart Alive - 8
=15 Ca' The Yowes - 8
=17 Good Intentions Paving Co. - 6
=17 Soft As Chalk - 6

MADPAWN
1 Baby Birch - 31
2 Have One On Me - 29
=3 In California - 28
=3 Swansea - 28
5 Cosmia - 23
6 Emily - 19
=7 Only Skin - 15
=7 Sadie - 15
=9 Anecdotes - 12
=9 Autumn - 12
11 Monkey & Bear - 11
12 You Will Not Take My Heart Alive - 9
=13 En Gallop - 6
=13 Jackrabbits - 6
15 Easy - 5
16 A Pin-Light Bent - 4
=17 Peach Plum Pear - 3
=17 Does Not Suffice - 3
19 Occident - 2
20 Same Old Man - 1

SOLFATARA
1 Ribbon Bows - 32
2 Only Skin - 30
3 Divers - 28
4 Sawdust & Diamonds - 26
=5 In California - 23
=5 Go Long - 23
7 Easy - 20
=8 Good Intentions Paving Co. - 16
=8 You Will Not Take My Heart Alive - 16
=10 Have One On Me - 12
=10 Anecdotes - 12
12 Sapokanikan - 10
13 Emily - 8
14 Soft As Chalk - 6
=15 Kingfisher - 2
=15 Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne - 2
=15 No Provenance - 2

STEVE
=1 Only Skin - 32
=1 En Gallop - 32
=1 Erin - 32
=1 Flying A Kite - 32
=1 Inflammatory Writ - 32
6 Divers - 26
7 Sawdust & Diamonds - 24
8 Ca' The Yowes - 23
9 Baby Birch - 22
10 Soft As Chalk - 19
11 Kingfisher - 18
12 Go Long - 16
13 Emily - 14
14 Cosmia - 12
15 Have One On Me - 10
16 The Fray - 8
17 Sadie - 7
18 Bridges & Balloons - 5
19 What We Have Known - 4
=20 Clam Crab Cockle Cowrie - 3
=20 Sprout & The Bean - 3
=22 Esme - 2
=22 Three Little Babes - 2
=24 A Pin-Light Bent - 1
=24 Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne - 1

UNDER A CPELL
1 Time, As A Symptom - 32
2 Cosmia - 30
3 Only Skin - 28
4 Anecdotes - 26
5 Go Long - 24
6 Leaving The City - 22
7 Sapokanikan - 20
8 Peach Plum Pear - 18
9 Waltz Of The 101st Lightborne - 16
10 Sadie - 14
11 Divers - 12
12 Have One On Me - 10
13 Good Intentions Paving Co. - 8
14 In California - 6
15 Kingfisher - 4
16 '81 - 2